aidancheddar
Active Member
Just because Android and Java have security holes with slow patches, doesn't !ean that's every open source project suffers the same problem. Look how fast Project Dollhouse responds to our bug reports and it's open source.
Mind blown: An Open Source Windows Is ‘Definitely Possible’
- Thread starter aidancheddar
- Start date
Afr0
Well-Known Member
Honestly, even if they did release the source, I'm not sure what good it would do.They'd probably have to hire authors and train them so that they could write books solely documenting the various APIs for anyone to be able to even make minor modifications.
Remember the Win2K source leak? I believe that's almost a decade ago. And back then, Microsoft claimed the entirety of their kernel and OS-related sourcecode totaled 4 terabyte.
That was back then.
Try to imagine several decades worth of backward compatibility fixes, third party vendor support, custom build scripts, backwards compatibility support for drivers (we're talking really low level code here), security fixes, and building on code that should have been rewritten but wasn't because there wasn't enough time or money or because said code fixed some really asinine bug that anyone has yet to comprehend.
That's the Windows code base in a nutshell.
Remember the Win2K source leak? I believe that's almost a decade ago. And back then, Microsoft claimed the entirety of their kernel and OS-related sourcecode totaled 4 terabyte.
That was back then.
Try to imagine several decades worth of backward compatibility fixes, third party vendor support, custom build scripts, backwards compatibility support for drivers (we're talking really low level code here), security fixes, and building on code that should have been rewritten but wasn't because there wasn't enough time or money or because said code fixed some really asinine bug that anyone has yet to comprehend.
That's the Windows code base in a nutshell.
aidancheddar
Active Member
Honestly, the whole reason I made this thread is because Microsoft would have NEVER have said this five years ago or anytime Ballmer was in charge. Now their entire open source division is being merged into the company.
Anyway, concerning the size and backwards compatibility issues, I'm guessing they'd probably do what they did with .NET. In .NET, 4.6 and all point releases from that are all up for grabs but pull requests are denied for the sake of compatibility. In contrast to .NET 5 where pull requests are accepted and it's be more modular. Windows would likely follow the same model. The one used by OEMs and distributed by Microsoft would deny pull requests and probably be split into thousands of repositories. Where as the open source version would be far more slimmed down offer the basic support for WinNT and WinRT apps, most likely.
Anyway, concerning the size and backwards compatibility issues, I'm guessing they'd probably do what they did with .NET. In .NET, 4.6 and all point releases from that are all up for grabs but pull requests are denied for the sake of compatibility. In contrast to .NET 5 where pull requests are accepted and it's be more modular. Windows would likely follow the same model. The one used by OEMs and distributed by Microsoft would deny pull requests and probably be split into thousands of repositories. Where as the open source version would be far more slimmed down offer the basic support for WinNT and WinRT apps, most likely.
Afr0
Well-Known Member
What would be the point of a "slimmed down" Windows, though? One of the really good features of Windows is its ability to run apps in compatibility mode. Sometimes it will even make specific detections and adjust accordingly for each specific app, without the user having to intervene.
And do you know why drivers usually work without a hassle in Windows, but tend to be hit or miss in Linux? That's because the Microsoft engineers have bent over backwards to ensure that their codebase is compatible with all sorts of asinine mistakes that driver writers have made.
And first and foremost, they'd have to figure out a way for... average engineers (I was trying to think of a good word here, but it occurred to me that there's no such thing as an "average" engineer)... to build it.
As the guy in the article points out, there's no point in going open source if it comes with a build system that takes rocket scientists and three months to setup.
And do you know why drivers usually work without a hassle in Windows, but tend to be hit or miss in Linux? That's because the Microsoft engineers have bent over backwards to ensure that their codebase is compatible with all sorts of asinine mistakes that driver writers have made.
And first and foremost, they'd have to figure out a way for... average engineers (I was trying to think of a good word here, but it occurred to me that there's no such thing as an "average" engineer)... to build it.
As the guy in the article points out, there's no point in going open source if it comes with a build system that takes rocket scientists and three months to setup.
aidancheddar
Active Member
Yes, that's true. But priding yourself solely on legacy application support will only get you so far before going the way of the dinosaurs. Microsoft is learning this the hard way and why their pushing for new and present application to published under the Windows Runtime. They're even leading by example by reworking Office to work in touch and desktop environments under the same runtime.
Actually, driver support for Linux has gotten way better then it was years ago. It now just works out of the box, unless you go for an ironically closed-minded open source only distro, gNewSense.
That's why I say strip it. Let Microsoft handle the legacy support, not the open source community. XD
There's a bit more to it than that... While windows RT has an identical API to windows 8 (afaik), you still need to compile the code to ARM instead of x86 for tablet support.
LetsRaceBwoi
Well-Known Member
Not really. Linux isn't that much better than it was - it's just that most distros seem to be like that and therefore give Linux more of a user-friendly look, when actually it's only about half of the distros that do have good driver support. Ubuntu has good driver support, for example, but something like Nanolinux won't have the same driver support because it has a much different perspective and a much different purpose. It has standard driver support, yes, but not hardcore 3D acceleration that lets you play games as such, unlike the former, which has a growing community and aims to become a user-friendly "one-size-fits-all" distribution.
aidancheddar
Active Member
Tell that to Valve.
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LetsRaceBwoi
Well-Known Member
Huh? AFAIK Steam is only available on certain distros, plus you probably won't be able to play many games anyways. You aren't going to be able to play many games (maybe penguinspuzzle.appspot.com) especially not the demanding ones on the smaller, minimalistic distros. I'm going to try out #! very soon, especially after the recent-ish announcement of the discontinuation of development, where I'll test out maybe a couple of games (probably like CoH2 or something along those lines) and compare them to my performance on Windows. But still, on the topic; Windows Open Source is definately a good thing - people could push bugfixes or new features, and Windows could be held stable by the community but it could also open up backdoors and serious viruses too.
aidancheddar
Active Member
I'm pretty sure you won't be able to play games on the new IOT or all server editions of Windows, either. "Certain distros" is like saying "certain editions" of Windows.
Not demanding ones? You mean like Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel, The Witcher 2, Metro Redux, Civ V, XCOM, or Cities: Skylines? To name a few. Not to mention any games created with the the now open source Doom 3 engine.
And yet you fail to link to any news source to back this statement up - not even Valve.
LetsRaceBwoi
Well-Known Member
Well, yeah. :/
I said on the smaller distros which don't come packaged with the drivers that would be required.
Also, the D3 engine is open source? Gonna have to try some stuff out there.
It's on the front page (http://crunchbang.org/) with a direct link to the forum post stating the announcement (http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=38916 for the lazy)
aidancheddar
Active Member
Ubuntu doesn't come with the proprietary drivers installed either but you can easily install them from an simple application. It's like (re-)installing the latest OEM drivers after fresh install of Windows. Just because distro doesn't have it installed, doesn't you can't get installed.
Is this about CrunchBang or games on Linux?
LetsRaceBwoi
Well-Known Member
It does come with a lot more drivers. But you're right, it is more difficult, yes.
...Yes?
aidancheddar
Active Member
Yes.... as in it's games or Linux or Crunchbang?
LetsRaceBwoi
Well-Known Member
As in Linux.
Afr0's right, bearded weirdo Linux guys DONT GIVE A SHIT about something called BACKWARD COMPATIBILITY. Well, hipster Mac guys wearing scarfs in the summer also kinda don't give a shit about it either.
Windows guys have to though, cause people gonna butthurt. -_-
Windows guys have to though, cause people gonna butthurt. -_-
BorderKontrol
Member
I can play Red Alert 2 on my Windows 10 machine without any patches and I like that
I can also play Red Alert 2 on my Manjaro install but eh
I can also play Red Alert 2 on my Manjaro install but eh
LetsRaceBwoi
Well-Known Member
I laughed at this one.
And shorts in the winter?
On-topic; some Linux distros do have backward compatibility, but it's a rare sight.
Afr0
Well-Known Member
If by "people" you're referring to gamers, then yeah. A lot of gamers benefit from the backwards compatibility. Windows is still the prime gaming OS, for good reason. And I think that's part of the reason why the Windows codebase is so complex: games bring with them their own set of unique challenges that Microsoft has decades of experience in grappling with.
aidancheddar said:
You can't just "strip" a codebase with a build system that takes three months to set up. The best you can do short of rewriting everything is trying to automate what you can and hope it will still build.