I think the community just fell apart

LetsRaceBwoi

LetsRaceBwoi

Well-Known Member
Code: 
throw new LetsRaceBwoiException("‼");
Welp, it looks like the entire Project Dollhouse community just fell apart; Rhys has started a fork of Project Dollhouse in what seems to be one of the biggest video game wars I've ever seen. For those wondering what had happened, here's a quick non-biased summary:
  • Rhys rewrote Afr0's code without his permission
  • Afr0 got very angry because of wasted time and effort on both sides of the equation and told Rhys he had quit the project
  • Rhys, out of what seems to be spite, created a fork of Project Dollhouse in which he will maintain his code
  • Afr0 threatened to kick Rhys from the repo and delete his files "personally".
  • Rhys blamed Afr0 for not playtesting when he was actually working on school projects and other things in his life
  • Rhys blamed me, out of the blue, for accidentally causing a crash by including some code that I forgot to remove while I was testing extra things
That's pretty much it, in summary. It looks like the argument went as far back as almost a week ago (likely in private or in more subtle ways) so this has been going on for a little longer than some people anticipated. I don't think some people are thinking though because code is released under the MIT license meaning that Afr0 can just pull request everything Rhys does into Project Dollhouse...
I'm not taking sides, which means I'm not going to be contributing until this is sorted. I'm probably not even going to be posting as much because of this; which means that I'll be quiet :)
If you want my opinion, this is a stupid and petty argument fuelled by an argument that happened a little over a year ago that was handled well and without the entire community confused about the fate of Project Dollhouse. Let's hope that Rhys and Afr0 get over their differences, and the fact that sometimes code needs changing.
 
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Welcome to the world of open-source, where people are actually doing that over few lines of code and then pulling everything because - yeah, it's open-source. :D I probably said that already, but rage-forking is probably the most stupid thing open-source community ever come up with.
 
you shouldve been banned from start. you have been really agressive to everything and kept making shitposts that didnt help. im glad rhys is out of this shithole and im out too. have a good day with your unfinished dollhouse
 
Afr0 was more at fault than what you make it sound like imo.. he was complaining because Rhys rewrote his network code in an open source project.. He could have handled the situation better. major over-reaction imo.. And Rhys did not want to be unable to fix code without afr0 having to be able (which according to him was in desperate need of re-writing). seriously, "I'll delete all my code and ban you from the git", over re-writing some of his code?
 
Cyber Toon said:
Afr0 was more at fault than what you make it sound like imo.. he was complaining because Rhys rewrote his network code in an open source project.. He could have handled the situation better. major over-reaction imo.. And Rhys did not want to be unable to fix the code (which was somehow three times the size). seriously, "I'll delete all my code and ban you from the git", over re-writing some of his code?
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Afr0 told Rhys a while ago not to rewrite code without his permission. I tried to say it really was, but deleting code and banning from the repo wouldn't be bad at all. As long as you have the source code at hand you can basically just re-upload it and call it a fork. It would have come to the same outcome as is now; Rhys would have forked the repo and we'd still be here.
cnnoi33 said:
you shouldve been banned from start. you have been really agressive to everything and kept making shitposts that didnt help. im glad rhys is out of this shithole and im out too. have a good day with your unfinished dollhouse
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love u 2 bb <3
 
LetsRaceBwoi said:
  • Rhys rewrote Afr0's code without his permission,
  • Rhys blamed Afr0 for not playtesting when he was actually working on school projects and other things in his life
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  1. That's one of the rules of open source. To modify code without having to ask permission. 'Nuff said.
  2. Then why didn't he so when he was "pulling out"?
    Afr0 said:
    Guys, I'm pulling out. This is Rhys' project now. The justification is simple: this project takes up too much of my time to be worth it when my code just turns out to be broken anyhow.
    Click to expand...
    Afr0 said:
    I wish you luck, I think everything is in capable hands. If there is anything you are absolutely not going to be able to do without me, I'd obviously help out, but I don't see that happening.
    Click to expand...
    Afr0 said:
    I'm not skilled enough to be part of the team, and I can't force Rhys to wait for me to fix my code all the time. It's better that I don't add any more broken shit.
    Click to expand...
The rest of your summary is filled with holes and contradictions too.
 
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LetsRaceBwoi said:
I'm probably not even going to be posting as much because of this; which means that I'll be quiet :)
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Well at least there is something good about all this...
(Sorry man, no hard feelings I just had to! ;) )

We all saw the posts here on the forum from the last couple of days and yes there are some problems and misunderstandings mainly between Rhys and Afr0 but please don't play the blame game... I can understand Rhys, he wants this project to succeed and he is very passionate about it. Especially the fast progress over the last couple of weeks ignited a fire in him. He his hard at work driving this project to success and in order for PD to be released he has to look t every line of code to iron out bugs and improve gameplay and stability. If that means he has to rewrite some part of Afr0s code in order to fix networking, well then that is what needs to be done. However this does not mean that Afr0s code was useless or a disaster, I mean we can semi-play TSO again because of Afr0s code, he has been the one that started all of this. I do understand that Afr0 is "pissed" about Rhys rewriting his code, if they had the rule that you need to notify or ask for permission before you rewrite anything than that should have been respected. Afr0 (as well as Rhys) sacrificed a lot of his free time to start and grow this project. I really hope both can sort out there differences, this project needs both of them!

Also as Zack pointed out, Afr0 gave Rhys control over PD because the project takes to much of his time at the moment and he didn't want to slow down the development.
Both sides have made mistakes and both sides have a right to be pissed, but at the end of the day I strongly believe that this project can only grow when both of them sort out their differences.

I do have a "request" for the users/fans of PD tho: Please don't act like you deserve to play TSO right now and that Rhys and Afr0 should better hurry to get this done!
Those guys sacrificed a lot of their time to bring you all of this. I know we all can't wait to play TSO again, today it's been 7 years since EA-Land was shutdown, but developing something, especial something the size of TSO, takes very much talent and time! I know all the latest progress got all of us excited but please, everyone that contributes to this project, Rhys, Afr0, Fatbag, Blayer, Zack, LetRaceBowi, etc. they all sacrifice a lot of their spare time to bring TSO back for you and them to play. A little patience is the least we can give 'em in return! :)
 
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Well said Tirea. Well said indeed. I too hope that they can settle their differences! This project needs both of them more than we as the community need TSO. We need to be patient.
 
Tirea said:
Well at least there is something good about all this...
(Sorry man, no hard feelings I just had to! ;) )

We all saw the posts here on the forum from the last couple of days and yes there are some problems and misunderstandings mainly between Rhys and Afr0 but please don't play the blame game... I can understand Rhys, he wants this project to succeed and he is very passionate about it. Especially the fast progress over the last couple of weeks ignited a fire in him. He his hard at work driving this project to success and in order for PD to be released he has to look t every line of code to iron out bugs and improve gameplay and stability. If that means he has to rewrite some part of Afr0s code in order to fix networking, well then that is what needs to be done. However this does not mean that Afr0s code was useless or a disaster, I mean we can semi-play TSO again because of Afr0s code, he has been the one that started all of this. I do understand that Afr0 is "pissed" about Rhys rewriting his code, if they had the rule that you need to notify or ask for permission before you rewrite anything than that should have been respected. Afr0 (as well as Rhys) sacrificed a lot of his free time to start and grow this project. I really hope both can sort out there differences, this project needs both of them!

Also as Zack pointed out, Afr0 gave Rhys control over PD because the project takes to much of his time at the moment and he didn't want to slow down the development.
Both sides have made mistakes and both sides have a right to be pissed, but at the end of the day I strongly believe that this project can only grow when both of them sort out their differences.

I do have a "request" for the users/fans of PD tho: Please don't act like you deserve to play TSO right now and that Rhys and Afr0 should better hurry to get this done!
Those guys sacrificed a lot of their time to bring you all of this. I know we all can't wait to play TSO again, today it's been 7 years since EA-Land was shutdown, but developing something, especial something the size of TSO, takes very much talent and time! I know all the latest progress got all of us excited but please, everyone that contributes to this project, Rhys, Afr0, Fatbag, Blayer, Zack, LetRaceBowi, etc. they all sacrifice a lot of their spare time to bring TSO back for you and them to play. A little patience is the least we can give 'em in return! :)
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I agree, but Guys, one big difference between PD and NIOTSO is that me and Fatbag ENJOY doing TSO-SE (NIOTSO), because it's something that we're interested in, I also want to be doing TSO-SE because then I'll have experience and know a bit about Assembly, Hexadecimal, Little and Big Endian formats, the .dat file format... the list goes on, and I can't wait to be able to use my knowledge to help myself advance when I go into College in September this year.

Well, i SAY difference.... :p I know RHYS enjoys the project, but there are people who just want the project working, which I can see why, it's been maybe 5-6 years since both TSO-SE and PD started?
 
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I'll cry and break down if my two saviors have to fight like this.

I had the best day of my sim life yesterday because of what they did together. I never played TSO,EA-Land,Any sort of Sims Online. While there was even a time where i wished (I just wish there was a sims game where people could play together! It could be so fun in more ways than even a MILLION! We could all be in neighborhoods all over entire worlds and visit each other,and have our own sims,and even interact with each other,while you can start an interaction with someone else,and they can either accept to do that action or decline it and such,It would be AMAZING. OH and with chat,don't forget chat. :3) (I got carried away..)

Point being,i found out about this project long ago,and to see it have come this far to where they do this,and i can finally play sims with someone else other than multiplayer at the same like,PS2 Console on The Sims 2 (Which is fun but,other people too since no one quite does this with me T.T)

Please...Don't do this! This project came too far to back out at all right now. And this could put stress on this for who knows how long,and the last thing i need,is for my hopes,dreams,and wishes of a sims game like this to get killed off all because of one single problem. Please make up and keep this project high,together,AS A TEAM!
 
nicefunfungirl said:
I'll cry and break down if my two saviors have to fight like this.

I had the best day of my sim life yesterday because of what they did together. I never played TSO,EA-Land,Any sort of Sims Online. While there was even a time where i wished (I just wish there was a sims game where people could play together! It could be so fun in more ways than even a MILLION! We could all be in neighborhoods all over entire worlds and visit each other,and have our own sims,and even interact with each other,while you can start an interaction with someone else,and they can either accept to do that action or decline it and such,It would be AMAZING. OH and with chat,don't forget chat. :3) (I got carried away..)

Point being,i found out about this project long ago,and to see it have come this far to where they do this,and i can finally play sims with someone else other than multiplayer at the same like,PS2 Console on The Sims 2 (Which is fun but,other people too since no one quite does this with me T.T)

Please...Don't do this! This project came too far to back out at all right now. And this could put stress on this for who knows how long,and the last thing i need,is for my hopes,dreams,and wishes of a sims game like this to get killed off all because of one single problem. Please make up and keep this project high,together,AS A TEAM!
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FreeSO will take the place of Project-Dollhouse soon, so nothing is lost or abandonned and TSO will be back. ;)
 
Blayer98 said:
I agree, but Guys, one big difference between PD and NIOTSO is that me and Fatbag ENJOY doing TSO-SE (NIOTSO), because it's something that we're interested in, I also want to be doing TSO-SE because then I'll have experience and know a bit about Assembly, Hexadecimal, Little and Big Endian formats, the .dat file format... the list goes on, and I can't wait to be able to use my knowledge to help myself advance when I go into College in September this year.
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I know what you mean, the first project I helped out on really showed me that coding is a beautiful thing, the sheer joy of being up late at night, writing hundreds upon hundreds lines of code, learning all this new stuff... It was amazing! It helped me find my path and fortunately I've been very successful ever since.
I really wish you the best of luck for your future path! :)

To get back to the topic... I hope you didn't misunderstood me, I put you and Fatbag in my little "speech" because you guys are doing a ton of research that helped this project immensely (also before I knew anything about PD or TSOR, I loved reading all those interesting posts on NIOTSO) and I know everyone may have a slightly different reason why he's working on this project. Whether you're here because you want to play TSO again, you simply love recreating old games or you just want to learn coding / improve your coding abilities, every single one of you influenced this project in their own way and this community I just here because of you guys.
Credit where credit is due... ;)
 
pisarz1958 said:
Welcome to the world of open-source, where people are actually doing that over few lines of code and then pulling everything because - yeah, it's open-source. :D I probably said that already, but rage-forking is probably the most stupid thing open-source community ever come up with.
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There's a lot more to this than you see on the surface. You may thing "rage-forking" is stupid, but it's completely necessary to progress at this point which is the only reason I'm doing it. He can't merge my changes back because he won't agree with them, this is why I'm forking in the first place...

Marvin732 said:
Does it start from 0 ? Hopefully not :/
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I'm going to have to slam the MMO code when the simulator is working reliably (right now it crashes on a hair trigger), maybe the patcher too, but since the simulator and UI engine are stable and work OK everything that I have worked on will remain at the same point. The result will be a much more reliable final product...

Blayer98 said:
I agree, but Guys, one big difference between PD and NIOTSO is that me and Fatbag ENJOY doing TSO-SE (NIOTSO), because it's something that we're interested in, I also want to be doing TSO-SE because then I'll have experience and know a bit about Assembly, Hexadecimal, Little and Big Endian formats, the .dat file format... the list goes on, and I can't wait to be able to use my knowledge to help myself advance when I go into College in September this year.

Well, i SAY difference.... :p I know RHYS enjoys the project, but there are people who just want the project working, which I can see why, it's been maybe 5-6 years since both TSO-SE and PD started?
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I love TSO and I love working on the simulator code. I think I've found out more about this game than anyone ever has, even the TS1 object modders from way back when. Now that everything's starting to work the feeling is fantastic. Anxiety over what the network code is going to mean for us is not beneficial.
 
RHY3756547 said:
I'm going to have to slam the MMO code when the simulator is working reliably (right now it crashes on a hair trigger), maybe the patcher too, but since the simulator and UI engine are stable and work OK everything that I have worked on will remain at the same point. The result will be a much more reliable final product.
Click to expand...

Are you going to style the patcher to resemble the original TSO Patcher? Because that would be so cool.
 
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